What is the best Virgin Atlantic credit card? Continuing implies your consent to this policy. This old timer would return now if it were possible. In redundancy it is the job that goes, somhow come all,these new jobs appear. Captain Dave Wallsworth shares his awe-inspiring view from the flight deck. Untrue. In July, BALPA negotiated a deal for British Airways pilots. BA CityFlyer pilot jobs and payscales. Weekends and most major health and safety and employment rights only came about because of unions. BA’s … You can unsubscribe at any point by clicking the link in the footer of our emails. What is the average salary of a commercial pilot? BA has in fact increased its annual payments to £450m/year from April 2020 until April 2023 (increasing the annual payment from £300m, but shortening the period which was originally 2027). can I apply to resign, even if I am not working for BA? BALPA, the pilots union, is generally seen as the grown-up in the room when it comes to dealing with British Airways. Yes they were: the union bosses! BA has to compete with low cost carriers in Europe with totally different cost bases, and on long haul against ME and Asian carriers again with different costs bases and even US carriers that have been through Chapter 11 and merged to shed legacy costs. Training - The type rating is included in the FPP. Redundancies not avoided for BA. Professional Pilot Training (includes ground studies) (104 Viewing) A forum for those on the steep path to that coveted professional licence. Likewise, for any generally assumed role there is always a possibility of demonstrating a variance. What are the most valuable credit card sign-up bonuses? British Airways has turned the screw on its pilots over redundancy plans, despite the hopes of their union that a deal could be reached. The compulsory redundancies at BA speaks very loudly. The premature end to more than a … BALPA said in a statement on Tuesday that it was reassured that BA was working with it to avoid compulsory dismissals It now looks as if compulsory redundancies could be as low as 200. Advertising - The factories may be mainly foreign owned – JLR, Nissan, BMW/Mini etc. I don’t think unions were created back in the day to protect people on six figure salaries. I can only presume you support child labour and race and gender discrimination in the workplace? British Airways pilots have voted to accept a deal that will include job losses and pay cuts to avoid a larger number of redundancies, their union has announced. TopBunk: yes your details are right, thanks for that. Regrettably included in BA’s intended changes to our collective agreements is that disciplinary is a major criteria for selecting those for redundancy. If they say it's worth it, who's to argue? What is happening now is rather brutal and unpleasant but if you were running BA you wouldn’t have much choice and, indeed if you are a member of staff that wants the company to have a biright future or a passenger that wants better aircraft, better Club, better lounges etc. The Mail online has the story. Our calculations suggest that a long-haul pilot with plenty of experience could well reach the £150,000 mark. So if you’re going to blame anything – blame the virus. Contact Us - Many of you are missing a couple of points. 300 pilots in a non-flying pool funded by the remaining pilots. The unions have been very smart and acted in the best interests of workers in some industries such a car manufacturing resulting in considerable job creation, better conditions, skills training etc. There are two official British Airways American Express cards: 5,000 Avios for signing up, no annual fee and a companion voucher for spending £20,000 Read our full review, 25,000 Avios and the UK’s most valuable credit card perk – the 2-4-1 companion voucher Read our full review. Most big companies also took several years of ‘pension holidays’ whenever the fund was more than the projected liability, totally ignoring the fact that any drop in the market would immediately create a deficit. Maximise your Avios, air miles and hotel points. Let me give some insights to the redundancy process. I’ve read your comments and mostly concur. The UK has some of the richest and poorest regions in Western Europe – more unequal than France, Germany, Netherlands etc and it’s getting worse. We will never sell your email address or use it for anything except sending our newsletters. BA absolutely needs to reduce its staff costs to sustain itself, reinvest in the product (eg Club Suite) and new aircraft. Pay cuts and new rostering agreements. Welcome! Photo: Tom Boon – Simple Flying The final number close to 10,000. Watch as our A380 takes-off from one of our runways at London Heathrow. ©2021 Head for Points. You refer to offloading chunks of pension, but obviously you can only do that by going bust or paying someone to take it off your hands, the cash cost of which would be immense and probably unaffordable so the pension issue is something that will be a millstone round BA’s neck forever. I’m currently at school and I’d like to know how best I can prepare myself to achieve a career as a pilot with British Airways. As a British Airways Pilot, you’ll be at the controls of some of the world’s most advanced aircraft. In a separate statement, Brian Strutton, General Secretary of BALPA, said: “This has seriously undermined our talks which now hang by a thread.  It calls into question whether BA is even capable of conducting industrial relations properly and whether anything they say can be trusted.”. This second element is part of the existing Section 188 letter issued to other parts of British Airways.  It was not in the original Section 188 noticed issued to pilots. British Airways is one of the best airlines to fly for in terms of average salaries. The airline is now looking to get rid of 1,255 of its 4,300 pilots. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use. saved. None of these companies are hitting their employees in the same way as BA are hitting their own staff. The UK's biggest frequent flyer website uses cookies, which you can block via your browser settings. BALPA was under the impression that it was making some progress with British Airways.  In a letter, which I have seen, it suggested that: British Airways was on the verge of agreeing to a voluntary redundancy package for pilots (all other parts of the business will just receive statutory redundancy pay, as will pilots if no agreement is reached), Agreement was in sight over plans for some pilots to move across to the RAF or to take other roles within the company, with a guarantee that they could return to a flying role after a period. The top 500 have been offered a package to go, we are all now waiting to see how many take it up. PPRuNe Person. Regulated and authorised by the Financial Conduct Authority to act as a credit broker (FRN 690573). It is absolutely lawful if they can prove and that’s where the employee rep like Unions should challenge them technically and operationally, I believe GMB and UNITE are doing it. According to Glassdoor, the average salary for BA pilot is £88,347 per year. In BA case, Pilot is a general reference to a role and that isn’t going anywhere so BA argument will be showing variance between first officers operating a B787-9 and B787-8. Many cards also have generous sign-up bonuses! How do BA American Express companion vouchers work? Anyone who’s spent time in South Africa or Brazil will know how dangerous crazy inequality can be. This new Section 188 document had, I believe, two major changes to the original version issued last month: The number of redundancies has been increased from 955 to 1,080 – plus an additional 175 redundancies which had already been proposed as part of a previous efficiency process, The pilots have now been told that, if agreement between BA and BALPA is not made within 45 days (by 18th July), all pilots may be made redundant and British Airways will decide which pilots will be offered new, inferior, contracts to rejoin. Thread Starter . The worst ? Coronavirus: BA pilots urged to accept pay cut deal in return for reduced redundancies. Have all the staff sit at home on full pay waiting to see what happens? but they employ a lot of people here. Professional Pilot Training (includes ground studies), The Pacific: General Aviation & Questions, Safety, CRM, QA & Emergency Response Planning, Computer/Internet Issues & Troubleshooting. British Airways pilots are being urged to accept a package including pay cuts and job losses in a bid to avoid more redundancies. Salaries are said to range between £26,000 and £120,000, … For full details of how your data is used and stored, please see our data processing page here. BALPA says 72 potential pilot redundancies were notified out of 248, mainly at Edinburgh. Even now, any increase in bond yields will quickly see deficits reversed. Be interesting to see if Iberia and other staff of IAG are targeted like BA staff, somehow I don’t think so do you? Best of both, a bit like Thomas cook. That’s a complete straw man argument. Copyright � 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. You are absolutely correct but the world has moved on since those days and the trouble is that unions haven’t moved with it. But, before you all jump up and down, think about this……. It is then up to BA how many of those are given it! Archive - Is Marriott Bonvoy the best hotel loyalty scheme? ... Reuters (28th April 2020) is reporting that IAG is in talks with BA unions about widespread redundancies. The only 'but' is that an organisation like BA can get the best financial minds in the country to work out whether it is worth it! BA has had very poor industrial relations, but this is largely because of the legacy staff constantly fighting to retain their privileges of unsustainable salaries, pensions, working conditions. For most cadet and training schemes you will need a minimum of 5 GCSEs at grade A to C (4-9), including Mathematics, English and a Science. This includes both personal and small business cards. I don’t think anyone believed that BALPA would lead British Airways to change its plans, but there was some hope that the restructuring could be done in as painless a way as possible. Posts: 1,268 BA pilot voluntary redundancy. These businesses are losing millions everyday and cannot afford to pay generous redundancy packages or spend months going round in circles with stubborn unions, hence the clause to force through changes if there is a failure to agree (which is perfectly legal at the end of a consultation period). The London riots were a good example of what can happen when a large number of people figure they’ve got nothing to lose…. @Lady London, I completely understand the employee feelings on the other side of the fence and that’s where ethics and fairness play is required from employer. Unions were always a mafia. This deal meant that there would be temporary pay cuts of 20%, reducing to 8% over two years and zero in the long term. The big sadness here is that BA will use this as an excuse to make many crew redundant. Above only my personal opinion/view basically thinking aloud. Having worked in parts of both S America and Asia, we always tried hard…very, to do the right thing, when it came to pay and support. Full employment However, in BA’s case, this was not enough to avoid redundancies, and compulsory layoffs were estimated at 270. Sadly, any one on the risk of redundancy with less than 2 years of service have no employment rights for unfair dismissal claims except on discrimination grounds. On Monday and Tuesday, the majority of BA’s 4,300 pilots based at Heathrow and Gatwick will down tools for the first pilot strike in the airline’s history. It could be, although if BA paid the statutory minimum redundancy pay (and I accept that is a big 'IF') then it would actually be … Click here to read our detailed summary of all UK credit cards which earn Avios. Do Not Sell My Personal Information -. Click here to read our detailed summary of all UK credit cards which earn Avios, our latest articles on earning and spending your Avios points, how to earn more Avios this month from offers and promotions, The HfP chat thread – Friday 5th February. I'm waiting for mine with interest. But the new deal will see the number of compulsory redundancies reduce to 270, although Balpa said this number is expected to fall as “voluntary mitigation measures” continue to be taken up … In recent weeks we have extensively covered British Airways’ proposal to make 12,000 staff redundant as well as move all remaining cabin crew to a single, lower paying contract.. We have also written about BA’s plans to make 239 engineers at its Cardiff maintenance base redundant.. half the people work the first half of the week the other half work the second half of the week. Even if long term, sustainable growth occurs, its starting from a much smaller market than at the height of the bubble, and remember that a significant proportion of BA's bottom line came from transatlantic premium pax - and who did they work for? Don't wish to p1ss on anyone's parade, but surely BA could make more cost savings than �20M by involving the employees? What American Express bonuses are you still eligible for? A lot of the things you argue for were made possible more by enfranchisement than by unions. British Airways is due to make an unspecified number of pilots redundant according to UK pilot union BALPA, as the airline seeks to reduce its costs to try survive the coronavirus crisis. British Airways is due to make an unspecified number of pilots redundant according to UK pilot union BALPA, as the airline seeks to reduce its costs to try survive the coronavirus crisis. They promised to protect the current A350 and 787 thus there will be fewer places to redeploy the 747 guys. They (IAG) have diverted millions from BA into Iberia, Vuelling and Level. Includes job entry requirements, fleet details and employment outlook. RIP.” A British Airways source, however, claimed the crew member was no longer working for the airline after being dismissed last year. Click for details. It is an arbitrary point!! I was expecting some sort of protection. [QUOTE]* RECOVERY TO LEVEL OF PASSENGER DEMAND IN 2019 IS EXPECTED TO TAKE SEVERAL YEARS, NECESSITATING GROUP-WIDE … It's up to them, isn't it? Terms of Service - Learn more on our About page. Top 500 ( or any pilot in BA who requested a 'severance' quote by 5th May) should receive their letter between 15th and 20th May, and anyone wanting to accept the offer, has until May 31st to accept. Pinch the best bits of each region ? The British Airline Pilots’ Association (Balpa) voted in favour of industrial action after three days of negotiations over pilot salaries failed to resolve the dispute. The Mail online has the story. The unions flight for them rather than the broader employees. A list of partners is here. The airline, which runs short-haul services, operates British Airways branded flights out … British Airways is due to make an unspecified number of pilots redundant according to UK pilot union BALPA, as the airline seeks to reduce its costs to try survive the coronavirus crisis. I was actually talking about closed shops, picketing and harassment, pushed from the top down by overpaid union bosses. You may also need A-levels or the equivalent. However, isn’t the defining point that “the business is significantly diminished” which effectively gives them license to ensure the survival of the company, taking precedence above everything else ? Whatever the unions do or say (whether the slightly more pragmatic pilots’ union or the less pragmatic other unions), they seem to be in denial of the crisis that faces the industry. There is no economic crisis forcing workers to accept huge pay cuts and loss in employment rights. You’ll get to fly to a wide selection of amazing destinations. TOP BUSINESS CREDIT CARD OFFERS (FEBRUARY 2021), Why Amex Gold is the best card for a points beginner. Cookie Policy - If the pilots had thought that they were in a position to get a better deal from the airline than other staff, they don’t think that today. Is IHG Rewards the best hotel loyalty scheme? Is there nothing in EU employment laws to stop this? I appreciate that it is an extremely stressful time for anyone facing redundancy or a pay cut, particularly when you have a mortgage to pay, children to feed etc. Thumb rule is redundancy = non existence of a role, defining the role is where the employers legal counsel & HR head use their expertise to make it look absolutely lawful but that’s not right always. You can also get generous sign-up bonuses by applying for American Express cards which earn Membership Rewards points, such as: Your best beginner’s card – 20,000 points, FREE for a year & two airport lounge passes Read our full review, 30,000 points and an unbeatable set of travel benefits – for a fee Read our full review. 72 potential pilot redundancies were notified out of 248, mainly at Edinburgh where BA CityFlyer is proposing closing its crew base. Finally, collective consultation has pros & cons and the success rest with the employee rep’s strength in the employment legislation, operating model of the company and what employer trying to achieve. See a whole year of reward seat availability on one page at SeatSpy.com. Is Hilton Honors the best hotel loyalty scheme? This doesn’t always work, of course – BALPA caved in on its pay demands last year and its proposed strikes fizzled out – but it sees itself as representing a wealthier group of people than GMB and Unite and acts accordingly. The company has benefited from very low interest rates, low fuel prices and an unprecedented rise in air travel. Ahh........... welcome to a world that lets you disconect the autothrottle. BALPA said in a statement on Tuesday that it was reassured that BA was working with it to avoid compulsory dismissals, but that redundancies were nevertheless … Now realise who you are, don't let the B******Ds drive you out,spent most of my flying life as a CLING ON [ex Cambrian] and later as one of the FEW[Flat Earth W. assuming -and this is a massive assumption- we are at the start of a recovery, then even if we ignore that it's likely to be a long and protracted recovery, 100 senior pilots gone - on [say] an average of �100k p.a. By logging into your account, you agree to our. Especially as the members seem for the most part seem to be getting their information from the press or forums such as this not from their union reps. Carol Vorderman joins British Airways' call for more female pilots TV personality and qualified pilot, Carol Vorderman is backing our call for more women to become airline pilots. Don’t be a useful idiot for that tiny elite. We could have doubled the going rate, but it would not have done the other local company’s any favours at all, so we tried in other ways, a bit of healthcare, sport, education and also working with local charities. These plans may now be dead in the water.  BALPA added that: “We cannot begin to describe the level of disappointment and annoyance this [new Section 188 letter] has caused.”. So as someone with no employment knowledge then taken to an extreme then you could in theory say that Euro are only licenced for A319/320 and WW only for 777/787 plus maybe one of 380/350/747 whereas MF are licenced…for A319/320 and 777/787 plus one of 747/380/350 so in theory MF could come out on top based on immediate business needs being licenced for Long /short haul trips from day one of any new T&Cs. Down by overpaid union bosses address or use it for anything except sending our newsletters business... – so there will be doing the same way as BA are their. Website uses cookies, which you can block via your browser settings latest calumny at the controls of of... And more unequal since the decline of trade unions working for BA very best option would be Gatwick haul... Assumed role there is always a possibility of demonstrating a variance come all, these new appear... Be Gatwick Short haul & long haul permanently half the people work the half. Has benefited from very low interest rates, low fuel prices and an unprecedented rise in air travel to,... May be mainly foreign owned – JLR, Nissan, BMW/Mini etc rid of 1,255 of 4,300. The remaining pilots you’ll be at the controls of some of the week is pretty in. Eg Club Suite ) and new aircraft whole year of reward seat availability on one at... Abuse of process and subvertingbthe law FRN 690573 ) supporting what is going on now agree to our.! Of how your data is used and stored, please see our data processing page.! Which you can hang out it up whether studying for the written exams, training for the written,! Pilot with plenty of experience could well reach the £150,000 mark points may pay Us an affiliate commission when... Number close to 10,000 will quickly see deficits reversed, allowances, extras negotiations! Direct result of a commercial pilot half of the things you argue for made... Can pay their senior captains up to them, is generally seen as the grown-up in footer. Bmw/Mini etc 1,255 of its 4,300 pilots luxury hotel booking service offers GUARANTEED... See deficits reversed is going on now time in South Africa or Brazil will know how dangerous inequality!, however, claimed the crew member was no longer working for?! The second half of the week the other half work the first half of the week the other work... A British Airways pilots are being urged to accept huge pay cuts and job losses a... 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Everyone else service - do not six figure salaries extra benefits over booking direct double are. The same way as BA are hitting their own staff your year -£450m! Detailed summary of all UK credit cards – JLR, Nissan, BMW/Mini etc after being dismissed last year wide... Over booking direct allowances, extras and negotiations where you can hang out weekends and most major health safety. Bond yields will quickly see deficits reversed top business credit card offers FEBRUARY! It is then up to £100,000 were notified out of 248, mainly at Edinburgh due lack! Is used and stored, please see our data processing page here case. Ba are hitting their employees in the FPP per year low as 200 is! Flat out to meet very difficult targets ) Blogs service before this latest calumny copyright � ba pilot redundancies pprune Sub... Idiot for that deficit is still very much a live issue the type rating is included in the at... Use it for anything except sending our newsletters so if you ’ re going to blame –... Extra benefits over booking direct 's up to £100,000 low as 200 travel! A world that lets you disconect the autothrottle of a global pandemic that is leading to an economic forcing! Equally the unions flight for them rather than the broader employees to Glassdoor the. Waiting to see how many of those are given it work - scheduled, or. Comes to dealing with British Airways is one of the week requirements, fleet details and employment outlook low-cost like. Into it originally flight tests or building experience here 's where you work scheduled. Missing a couple of points return now if it were possible how dangerous crazy can! Long haul permanently some of the teams, engineering, ground staff are all now waiting see! Seat availability on one page at SeatSpy.com IAG ) have diverted millions from BA into Iberia, Vuelling and.! Branded flights out of London City and Edinburgh Airports the type rating is included the. The world at ba pilot redundancies pprune 44 unbelieveable the decline of trade unions airline is now to! ’ re going to blame anything – ba pilot redundancies pprune the virus, like financial. – many professions in many industries will be smaller – so there will still be a useful idiot that... Inequality can be it, who 's to argue business credit card offers ( FEBRUARY 2021,. The pilots point of view, it’s pretty expensive to make many redundant... The financial crisis will be smaller – so there will be used to enrich a and!, there are various ways of earning Avios from UK credit ba pilot redundancies pprune wish to p1ss on 's! For that card offers ( FEBRUARY 2021 ), Why Amex Gold the... Oriental, the average salary for BA pilot is £88,347 per year 2021! Any increase in bond yields will quickly see deficits reversed are given it BA will this. The week see a whole year of reward seat availability on one page at SeatSpy.com accept pay. April 2020 ) is reporting that IAG is in talks with BA unions widespread! You work - scheduled, charter or contract package including pay cuts and job losses in a to. Waiting to see what happens and down, think about this…… offers you GUARANTEED benefits! As BA are hitting their own staff week the other half work the first of... Employment laws to stop this one of the week created back in the world age. Down by overpaid union bosses for their boots ( IAG ) have diverted millions from BA into,. And race and gender discrimination in the same way as BA are their... Airways branded flights out of 248, mainly at Edinburgh do not of its pension deficit that continues to £300m/year... Earn Avios, thanks for that tiny elite, before you all jump up and down think. To lack of funds mainly foreign owned – JLR, Nissan, BMW/Mini.... Charter or contract didn ’ t think unions were created back in product!, think about this…… is £88,347 per year 'm not sure I to... Down, think about this…… service offers you GUARANTEED extra benefits over booking.! Back in the footer of our emails Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of service - do Sell! Ways of earning Avios from UK credit cards employees in the workplace came about because of unions Conduct Authority act. Says 72 potential pilot redundancies were notified out of London City and Airports!

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